Way of Truth Forums

A Forum Site For Christians Seeking the Way of Truth
 
HomeSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Tithing

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Tithing   Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:39 pm

If a person like me doesn't belong to a church anymore, how do we tithe?

I have been giving to some organizations from TV, but one of the evangelists said one time, please don't send me your tithes, they belong with the church. I accept gifts only.
Back to top Go down
TomL
Admin
avatar

Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-03-25
Age : 61
Location : Lebanon, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:08 pm

Tithing is not a part of New Testament Christianity.

_________________
study - Do your best to present yourself to God as an approved worker who has nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of truth with precision. - 2 Timothy 2.15; ISV, isv.com
Back to top Go down
http://line2016.freeforums.net
TomL
Admin
avatar

Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-03-25
Age : 61
Location : Lebanon, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:12 pm

Maybe my article, Bought At A Price will help you understand that tithing is not part of true Christianity.

_________________
study - Do your best to present yourself to God as an approved worker who has nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of truth with precision. - 2 Timothy 2.15; ISV, isv.com
Back to top Go down
http://line2016.freeforums.net
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:50 pm

I read it Tom, but I still don't understand it. I will have to study it some more. Thanks Smile
Back to top Go down
TomL
Admin
avatar

Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-03-25
Age : 61
Location : Lebanon, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:45 am

Well. Jesus "bought" us. He "purchased" us. He owns 100% of us. If he already owns 100% of us, why would he need to ask for 10%?

This is the basis for an article I wrote called "Christian Communism." I shall post it here so you can read it.

_________________
study - Do your best to present yourself to God as an approved worker who has nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of truth with precision. - 2 Timothy 2.15; ISV, isv.com
Back to top Go down
http://line2016.freeforums.net
Yehushuan

avatar

Posts : 30
Join date : 2014-02-18
Location : Amishland, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:10 pm

Hi WhiteDove,

We do have the verse:

1Co 16:2 KJV  Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

And this was "concerning the collection for the saints."

In order to accomplish anything there are at least three things needed:  (1) a plan; (2) some ability; and (3) a budget.  I now believe that the "tithe" is a mechanism by which one can be assured that funds are available for one's spiritual growth.  In essence, one "tithes" to oneself.  A portion of one's wealth (perhaps income is a more appropriate word today) is to be set aside on the first day of the week so that monies will be available to you for your continued spiritual growth and "out-working."

I use part of the money I set aside to fund the assembly where I gather for worship, but I also use this to fund any other Spirit-directed works.  If one is led to read a book, say from Joel Osteen - the money is there.  If one is led to give to the poor - the money is there.  If one is led to take a brother out for coffee (to speak of spiritual things of course) - the money is there.  If one is led to provide transportation to the elderly - the money for gas is there.  In other words, the "tithe" is what I set apart to fund any fellowship or ministry of the Spirit in which I am led to participate.  When people stop me on the street and ask me for money - the money is there.  I pull out (typically) a $20 and then deduct this from my "tithe."  Other times I take them to lunch or possibly the grocery store - depends upon my time and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

My point is that many "good works" are not done because believers don't have the money available to do them - their "funding model" (i.e. budget) is dysfunctional and money is not "laid by in store" (ready for spending) in order to do "good works."  We can see in general that God once thought 10% to be appropriate.  If He leads one to another percentage, who am I to argue, except for those who put nothing aside and are caught unawares (not ready) and has no budget for when a thing must be done.

Now what many Christians do not know, is that within Judaism today, the "tithe" is a 10% income fee that is legally assessed to members of a synagogue.  If you don't pay this, you're not a member and cannot attend the synagogue.  The New Testament refers to this as the "temple tax," and Jesus didn't quite appreciate this kind of behaviour.

So.  I would suggest your monies be spread around where the Spirit guides in order to benefit the kingdom - your local food pantry, your local "pro-life" center, (I'm sure you get the picture).

God bless,
Yehu
Back to top Go down
TomL
Admin
avatar

Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-03-25
Age : 61
Location : Lebanon, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:00 am

Interesting post Jehu. There is nothing in Scripture that deals with most of what you said, whether nay or yay. Therefore, I believe in the perfect law of liberty. I believe where the Bible is silent on an issue, we may do as we see fit.

Since we are so close, while I don't drink coffee, outside of my own, I will allow you to buy me tea, if you like.

_________________
study - Do your best to present yourself to God as an approved worker who has nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of truth with precision. - 2 Timothy 2.15; ISV, isv.com
Back to top Go down
http://line2016.freeforums.net
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:10 am

Wow Yehu. That seems to be so logical to me and much more beneficial. I don't understand much with what I am learning on this forum as it is too deep for me, but I am sticking with it because Tom and Nan are helping me to learn. They can't help it if I am a slow learner (wink), but I must tell you, I sure do understand your post and I am going to start IMMEDIATELY doing my tithing that way.

I am the type of person who is always there for someone if they need a helping hand, with food, etc. and support of other nature as well, so this is almost exactly what I have already been doing. Except I haven't been doing it for Christians necessarily. Just anyone I meet.

May I ask? What kind of assembly do YOU gather for worship? You don't have to answer if you don't want, just ignore me if I am too personal. I want to go somewhere to worship and because I don't know where to go and not always well enough to go regularly, I just go to a church of any sort.

Tom, you mentioned "The perfect law of Liberty" before. I didn't understand, but today I now understand what you mean by that....."where the Bible is silent on an issue, we may do as we see fit." Correct?.

I am so excited this morning (5.07 am) with my morning coffee. I am starting to see the light on a few things. I believe The Lord directed me to Tom's forum. I am learning a new way. It has my heart on fire and I just want to learn more and more and more.... each day.

If I ever come to Pennsylvania, I will buy you all coffee (Tea for tom, wink) with my tithing money. Smile Smile Smile

Back to top Go down
TomL
Admin
avatar

Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-03-25
Age : 61
Location : Lebanon, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:13 am

I feel the need for a reminder here that tithing is 10%. But God through Christ owns us 100%, so there is no need for him to ask for 10%. Everything we are, everything we own, is already his.

I also want to point out that the "perfect law of liberty," is not a license to do wrong. For example, the Bible says not one word about what kind of car to buy. At the same time, Jesus did not say to the rich ruler, "Sell everything you have, go buy a Rolls Royce, and come follow me." What he did say, "Sell everything you have, give to the poor, and come follow me." Joel Osteen would probably say there is nothing wrong in buying a $100,000 car. But, I believe, when we buy in excess, that will prevent us from helping the poor. Therefore, I believe, being materialistic is a sin. Therefore, the prosperity doctrine, as it is being called, is a false doctrine. Materialism often prevents poor people from getting the help they need. And that is a sin. Jesus said, "If you love me you will obey me." - My Translation. And Christ often to help the poor. Therefore, anything that keeps us from obeying Christ is a sin.

I hope this makes it more clear.

_________________
study - Do your best to present yourself to God as an approved worker who has nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of truth with precision. - 2 Timothy 2.15; ISV, isv.com
Back to top Go down
http://line2016.freeforums.net
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:37 am

Yes, it is clear Tom, thanks Smile....

So, the way I understand the "perfect law of liberty" means that if it is not in the New Testament, then we should make a judgment call of our own. Maybe try to base it on the thought "what would Jesus do in this case" ? Am I right?

So if I can't buy a Rolls Royce, how about I buy a plain little old Ford, so I can come to Pennsylvania to visit my new friend?  bounce bounce bounce (or would it be alright to buy a lottery ticket? There are two places who give cars for gifts). Oh, sorry, that would be a post for another thread. I will start one right now. It may be gambling.
Back to top Go down
Yehushuan

avatar

Posts : 30
Join date : 2014-02-18
Location : Amishland, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:51 pm

Thanks WhiteDove,

But most of what I post is the result of what I call “revelation the hard way,” so I don’t take credit for what God has decided to “learn me.” (And I’m sure you’ll find some things I say won’t sit easily.)

Now you may find some commentary on 1st. Cor. 16 that states Paul was collecting money to give to other churches elsewhere that were having economic troubles, specifically the Church in Jerusalem.

In Acts 2 you find a kind of quasi communism that pooled everyone’s money together in order to be distributed where best needed.  The old “From each according to his ability, To each according to his need.”  This kind of behaviour ought to be seen as an initial irrational exuberance (to quote ex-Fed chairman Allen Greenspan) as such an economic model wasn’t specifically commanded by the Spirit, and it wasn’t long until the church at Jerusalem became bankrupt and needed a stimulus package which Paul was collecting.

Responsible budgeting for all things in one’s life is a wise discipline, and this would include budgeting for one’s spiritual growth and ministry.  So while one’s “tithe” is a “spiritual budget,” caution needs be exercised that one doesn’t rationalize using it to fix the roof that just started leaking, or pay for tickets to the latest hobbit movie.  While it doesn’t need to be reserved for the saints only, it is to be used for saintly work.  Yet don’t just give money to the poor without taking advantage of the opportunity to evangelize.

The simple lesson is: one just can’t do spiritual good works if the money isn’t there.  Again, the “tithe” isn’t for the church, but for you.  (The OT tithe was for the priests, and in the NT believers are a royal priesthood: cf. 1 Peter 2:9)  If one finds that participating in a local fellowship benefits one’s spiritual growth, then by all means help pay the church’s water and electric bill (or just don’t use the toilet ;^).

(White Dove)
May I ask? What kind of assembly do YOU gather for worship?

(Yehu)
Well when asked, technically I’m an elder of the Bene Y’shua.  But such a term is a half jibe at those who deeply believe in organized religion and require titles and credentials.  “We” (as such waxes and wanes) are a highly disorganized religion.  I’ve visited 476 different churches of all sorts so far in my life, partnered with maybe 30 or so, and have been excommunicated from 12.  At some point I hope to post an essay on the structure of Christianity, but suffice it to say for right now that I fall into the more wild crazy side of Pentecostal things but am hiding out in an Evangelical Lutheran Church for now (go figure).  Although I’ve scouted a couple of Greek Orthodox Churches I might visit with soon.

I should note I always put “tithing” in quotes, because it is to come from the heart, not from an external law, and might be more or less than an exact 10% depending upon how “God hath prospered you.” So from my perspective, “tithing” is a conscious decision to put aside part of the money from your income or business so that funds are available when necessary to do spiritually good works.  I have found that those who tend to mush up all their money into just one single bank account and then pay for everything from that, typically find the rent and food and electric and all the other bills take up all the money and nothing is left.

Pay God first.  Pay yourself second, and then with the left over 80% pay your expenses out of this.

WhiteDove wrote:
So, the way I understand the "perfect law of liberty" means that if it is not in the New Testament, then we should make a judgment call of our own.

Well we do have this verse:

Rom 8:14 KJV  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

So I wouldn’t characterize it as a personal judgment call, but rather as a Spirit led guidance.

Yehushuan
Back to top Go down
Yehushuan

avatar

Posts : 30
Join date : 2014-02-18
Location : Amishland, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:34 pm

TomL wrote:
Since we are so close, while I don't drink coffee, outside of my own, I will allow you to buy me tea, if you like.

Hey, when my car's out from under five feet of snow and I get a new battery, we can do dinner if I travel that far.  (I gather you're not involved with any local assembly, but if so, I'm always up for a visit - looking for 477.)
(smiley link prohibited by forum)

Yehu

PS: As for the rich young ruler, I'm sure the object lesson wasn't to support the poor, as Jesus said there will always be poor, but rather to teach this poor fellow (irony intended) that this was the one thing he couldn't get himself to do - part with his security attached to wealth and trust in God instead.  Had he actually given all that money to the poor, within a short time I'm sure he'd have it all back but with a different perspective upon what (or who) he should place his trust in for security in life.
Back to top Go down
TomL
Admin
avatar

Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-03-25
Age : 61
Location : Lebanon, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:24 pm

Yehushuan wrote:
TomL wrote:
Since we are so close, while I don't drink coffee, outside of my own, I will allow you to buy me tea, if you like.

Hey, when my car's out from under five feet of snow and I get a new battery, we can do dinner if I travel that far.  (I gather you're not involved with any local assembly, but if so, I'm always up for a visit - looking for 477.)
(smiley link prohibited by forum)

Yehu

PS: As for the rich young ruler, I'm sure the object lesson wasn't to support the poor, as Jesus said there will always be poor, but rather to teach this poor fellow (irony intended) that this was the one thing he couldn't get himself to do - part with his security attached to wealth and trust in God instead.  Had he actually given all that money to the poor, within a short time I'm sure he'd have it all back but with a different perspective upon what (or who) he should place his trust in for security in life.

You are the right. The question was how to gain eternal life. The way to eternal life is following Christ. His reaction showed that he would have his riches than to follow Christ. However, helping the poor is a big part of following Christ. True, he did say "the poor you will have with always." That statement, I don't believe, was intended to suggest we should ignore the poor while we are serving Christ. But, rather I believe it was intended to teach the disciples priority.

My car is out. How close are to Greenfield Drive?

_________________
study - Do your best to present yourself to God as an approved worker who has nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of truth with precision. - 2 Timothy 2.15; ISV, isv.com
Back to top Go down
http://line2016.freeforums.net
Yehushuan

avatar

Posts : 30
Join date : 2014-02-18
Location : Amishland, PA

PostSubject: Re: Tithing   Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:42 pm

(TomL)
My car is out. How close are to Greenfield Drive?

(Yehu)
45 minutes if I read the map correctly. But I gotta go up on the roof as the water is just pouring in the ceiling right now. Besides, for the moment I'm running a one patient nursing home for mom.

- I'm up on the roof but I hope to get down... (I'll put the joke over in the humor section later)
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Tithing   

Back to top Go down
 
Tithing
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Prosperity Tithing
» The Spanking I got for not tithing :-) and Gods provision
» ROB SKIBA - BIBLICAL TITHING

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Way of Truth Forums  :: WAY OF TRUTH Christian Forums :: General Christian Forum-
Jump to: