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PostSubject: The unpardonable sin   Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:59 am

I have always understood that the unpardonable sin is to grieve the Holy Spirit. But I really don't know exactly what it is.

Would someone please like to shed some light on this for me? Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:00 pm

"Grieve the Holy Spirit." Is that what the NIV says?

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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:12 pm

Ephesians 4:30
New International Version (NIV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30
New King James Version (NKJV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


Ephesians 4:30-32
English Standard Version (ESV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:25 pm

See Matthew 12.30-32.

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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:17 pm

Matthew 12:30-32
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Unpardonable Sin

30 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

31 “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 Whoever [a]speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever [b]speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, each says something different, how should we know which to believe? And, what is the unpardonable sin? speaking against the Holy Spirit? But in what way? By saying we don't believe in him?
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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:30 pm

Notice the words, "speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him." Speaking against the Holy Spirit, that's the unpardonable sin.

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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:21 am

ok, and would using the name of God or Jesus in vain be included in speaking against the Holy Spirit, since he is part of the God Head?
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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:46 am

WhiteDove wrote:
ok, and would using the name of God or Jesus in vain be included in speaking against the Holy Spirit, since he is part of the God Head?

Well, first of all, "God" is not a name, but a title. That's why I like the American Standard Version. Those translators used the name "Jehovah," when appropriate.

But, in answer to you question, no.

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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:45 pm

I have a bit of a different take on this.

The only sin that cannot be forgiven is a sin that is denied - where the person says, "I didn't do it !!"

Hey if you didn't do it, then how can it be forgiven?  You didn't do it.

In that one of the ministries, if not the primary ministry, of the Holy Spirit is to "convict" or point out sin, then a "blasphemy" would be to speak out against, or deny the testimony of Holy Spirit which is letting one know that something is a sin.

Yehu
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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:09 pm

We are talking about a sin that can NEVER be forgiven. Denial of a sin does not mean it can never be forgiven. If the one doing the denying changes their mind, it can be forgiven unless it is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:48 pm

Yes, a sinned denied can NEVER be forgiven.  If there is a change of heart, then the sin is one that is no longer denied.  But again, a denied sin standing in contradiction to the conviction of the Holy Ghost can NOT ("NEVER") be forgiven.

Yehu
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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:56 pm

A sin that can NEVER be forgiven means NEVER FORGIVEN no matter what. A sin denied can be forgiven if no longer denied.

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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:39 pm

Actually Tom, the Greek word is ουκ, and just means "not."  The word NEVER isn't present in the text.

ουκ αφεθησεται αυτω

ουκ (NOT) αφεθησεται (WILL BE SENT FORTH FROM) αυτω (HIM)

When one stops "speaking against the Holy Spirit" then it may be "forgiven" (sent forth from) him.

The temporal constraints of the context aren't hard to follow.

δ αν ειπη (MIGHT SPEAK - second aorist active subjunctive) κατα (DOWN) του (THE) πνευματος (SPIRIT) του (THE) αγιου (HOLY)

The action of the speaking in Mat. 12:32 is presented in the subjunctive mood as something which may (or may not occur), but is preceded by the word "αν" to indicate that the condition may be retractable.

αν is a "modal Particle used with Verbs to indicate that the action is limited by circumstances or defined by conditions. ... the assertion made by the Verb is dependent on a condition, expressed or implied."

LINK: www (DOT) perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Da)%2Fn1

Once the circumstances of the condition change then the result may also change.

Both the presence of the subjunctive mood in the verb along with the modal particle of condition "softens" the aspect of the action. It is NOT like, "if you shoot yourself in the head you will be dead. Period."  The result of the action (the not being "forgiven") exists for only as long as the condition itself remains (the ειπη κατα or speaking down the Holy Spirit).  Stop speaking against the Holy Spirit, then the not-ness of the taking away ("forgiveness") also stops.

Yehu

PS: Greek is not like English, and the temporal aspects of action are not easily translated into an English mindset.  That's why the Catholic Church was dead set against the publication of the scriptures in a common tongue.  Even Luther realized this once the damage was done and everybody considered him or herself to be a theologian by merely reading the text.

PPS: "Click on" Links still don't work.  To be more precise, they work in preview mode, but won't "Send."
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PostSubject: Re: The unpardonable sin   Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:04 pm

Sorry, I don't play semantic games. I am not a Greek scholar.

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