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TomL
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PostSubject: New Heavens and New Earth   Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:26 am

The following is from this thread:  A new heavens and earth?

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It is very important to have a correct understanding of the terms "heavens and earth" or the theology we believe will be all over the place and essentially wrong.

There are a number of NT statement were the term heaven and earth appear including:

(Mat 5:18 KJV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

(Mat 24:35 KJV) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

(2 Pet 3:13 KJV) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

So are these things the literal heaven(s) and the planet earth?

How did the Jews understand the heavens and earth?

(Exo 25:8 KJV) let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

(Exo 25:9 KJV) According to all that I show thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

The pattern where "I may dwell among them" is gone and replaced with the temple of believers:

(1 Pet 2:5 KJV) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

(Heb 8:4 KJV) For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

(Heb 8:5 KJV) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount.

(Heb 9:10 KJV) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

(Heb 9:11 KJV) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.

(Heb 12:22 KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

We can see from some of the above that the Jews understood the heavens and earth to be the temple where God dwelt among them prior to Jesus arriving on the scene.

How can we really be sure this is how they understood it in that way?

Here is what Josephus the 1st Jewish historian who had studied with the various sects of Jesus time wrote:

Quote :
Antiquities Book 3 6:4

As for the inside, Moses parted its length into three partitions. At the distance of ten cubits from the most secret end, Moses placed four pillars, the workmanship of which was the very same with that of the rest; and they stood upon the like bases with them, each a small matter distant from his fellow. Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God. But the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this part is peculiar to the priests only.


Antiquities book 3 7:7

Now here one may wonder at the ill-will which men bear to us, and which they profess to bear on account of our despising that Deity which they pretend to honor; for if any one do but consider the fabric of the tabernacle, and take a view of the garments of the high priest, and of those vessels which we make use of in our sacred ministration, he will find that our legislator was a divine man, and that we are unjustly reproached by others; for if any one do without prejudice, and with judgment, look upon these things, he will find they were every one made in way of imitation and representation of the universe. When Moses distinguished the tabernacle into three parts, and allowed two of them to the priests, as a place accessible and common, he denoted the land and the sea, these being of general access to all; but he set apart the third division for God, because heaven is inaccessible to men.

That's an interesting statement - "he denoted the land and the sea," - two parts of the tabernacle called "land and sea" - which could easily substitute earth for land in Josephus's statement and it would accord with this:

(Rev 21:1 KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Could John in the book of revelation have in mind "as a place accessible and common” the land and sea" when he states there was no more sea? - I think this is quite likely.

How does Peter understand the "heavens and earth"?

(2 Pet 3:12 KJV) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

(2 Pet 3:13 KJV) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter describes the heavens being on fire and the elements shall melt - is he speaking of the actual heavens and elements of the earth?

What is interesting to note is his use of the world elements - in the Greek the word is stoicheion

We find it is used in only seven verses - twice in Peter's letter.

Col 2:8 KJV Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments (stoicheion) of the world, and not after
Christ.

Col 2:20 KJV Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments (stoicheion) of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Gal 4:3 KJV Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements (stoicheion) of the world:

Gal 4:9 KJV But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements (stoicheion) whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Heb 5:12 KJV For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles (stoicheion) of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

As can be seen from the above the usages of stoicheion (elements) all have to do with religious principles/teachings or philosophy and not atoms or elements of the physical world or universe.

Here is what Adam Clarke had to say in his commentary:

Quote :
Galatians 4:3 "The elements of the world" - A mere Jewish phrase, enaae oaii äæä yesodey olam hazzeh, the principles of this world; that is, the rudiments or principles of the Jewish religion.

Gal 4:3 in Greek:

douloo hypo stoicheion kosmos (system - religious) (elements of the world)

Adam Clarke again:

Quote :
Galatians 4:9 "Now, after that ye have known God - After having been brought to the knowledge of God as your Savior. Or rather are known of God - Are approved of him, having received the adoption of sons.

To the weak and beggarly elements .

After receiving all this, will ye turn again to the ineffectual rites and ceremonies of the Mosaic law - rites too weak to counteract your sinful habits, and too poor to purchase pardon and eternal life for you? If the Galatians were turning again to them, it is evident that they had been once addicted to them. And this they might have been, allowing that they had become converts from heathenism to Judaism, and from Judaism to Christianity. This makes the sense consistent between the 8th and 9th verses.

When Peter spoke about the elements burning with fervent heat he was speaking about the destruction of the religious elements and principles connected to the old covenant and the temple in Jerusalem which was destroyed in 70AD.

Peter is not speaking about the heavens in the universe or the planet earth.

And this brings me back to Noahs regional flood - the kosmos or system back then was destroyed and as Peter and Jesus said the destruction of the Temple and the elements (stoicheion) would be destroyed in 70AD - they were not speaking of a global destruction of the planet earth or of the heavens as we generally have understood them and neither did they understand that Noah's flood was global or universal.

Until we start to read the bible as it was written how the Jewish people used language, idioms and ideas we will misunderstand the intent of the scriptures and their true meaning.

Heb 12:26-28 KJV Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

The writer of Hebrews here is alluding to:

Hag 2:21 KJV Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;

Again from Adam Clarks commentary:

Quote :
Hebrews 12:26 'Whose voice then shook the earth - Namely, at the giving of the law on Mount Sinai; and from this it seems that it was the voice of Jesus that then shook the earth, and that it was he who came down on the mount.

But others refer this simply to God the Father giving the law. Not the earth only, but also heaven - Probably referring to the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, and the total abolition of the political and ecclesiastical constitution of the Jews; the one being signified by the earth, the other by heaven; for the Jewish state and worship are frequently thus termed in the prophetic writings.

Heb 12:27 KJV And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Adam Clarke:

Quote :
The removing of those things that are shaken - The whole of the Jewish polity, which had been in a shaken state from the time that Judea had fallen under the power of the Romans.

As of things that are made - That is, subjects intended to last only for a time. God never designed that the Jewish religion should become general, nor be permanent.

Those things which cannot be shaken - The whole Gospel system, which cannot be moved by the power of man.

Protestant writers knew this back in the 1800's yet modern fundy-mentalsim has lost touch with true biblical interpretation and is following the doctrines of man and a woman that founded the SDA movement.

(Isa 13:10 KJV) For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

This is spoken of as the fall of Babylon:

(Isa 13:19 KJV) And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

The figurative language used by Isaiah is used in a similar fashion by Jesus in describing the destruction of the temple, the sack of Jerusalem and the end of the Mosaic Covenant in 70AD

(Mat 24:29 KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Jesus stated that all this would happen in the generation that witnessed his preachings and warnings:

(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The stars of heaven and the sun were not affected physically back when God overthrew Babylon, neither did they in 70 AD.

The language is figurative – here is what Adam Clarke has to say in his commentary on Isa 13:10

Quote :
For the stars of heaven "Yea, the stars of heaven" - The Hebrew poets, to express happiness, prosperity, the instauration and advancement of states, kingdoms, and potentates, make use of images taken from the most striking parts of nature, from the heavenly bodies, from the sun, moon, and stars: which they describe as shining with increased splendor, and never setting. The moon becomes like the meridian sun, and the sun's light is augmented sevenfold; (see Isa 30:26); new heavens and a new earth are created, and a brighter age commences. On the contrary, the overflow and destruction of kingdoms is represented by opposite images. The stars are obscured, the moon withdraws her light, and the sun shines no more! The earth quakes, and the heavens tremble; and all things seem tending to their original chaos, See Joe 2:10; Joe 3:15, Joe 3:16; Amo 8:9; Mat 24:29; and De S. Poes. Herb. Prael. 6 et IX.

And the moon shall not cause her light to shine - This in its farther reference may belong to the Jewish polity, both in Church and state, which should be totally eclipsed, and perhaps shine no more in its distinct state for ever.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/isa013.htm

(Isa 13:13 KJV) Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

We see similar figurative language as used above in Hebrews:

(Heb 12:26 KJV) Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

And this is written in the context of the Old Mosaic covenant waxing old and the New Covenant coming into full force:

(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

When considering the figurative language of the sun and moon in a religious sense we see how it is used here:

(Rev 21:23 KJV) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

With the destruction of the old heavens and earth represented by the temple and priesthood and that those were representations of the sun, moon and stars as in "Isa 13:10 KJV For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened."

We can understand that God now dwells with man and that the whole community of believers is the temple and that God and Jesus himself is the light thereof.

This is an interesting verse in Isaiah:

(Isa 51:16 KJV) And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Here God is saying that he is covering Israel "in the shadow of mine hand" while he plants the heavens and lay the foundations of the earth.

This can't be referring to the actual physical heaven and earth creation from Genesis because Israel became His people long after that event.

So here again is the usage of heavens and earth in a figurative sense.

This is an interesting statement from Charles Spurgeon and how he viewed the meaning of "the new heavens and the new earth".

This is an excerpt from a sermon he preached in 1865:

Quote :
Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, or any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it...

(Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).

From John Owen (1616-1683):

Quote :
(regarding II Peter 3) “It is evident, then, that in the prophetical idiom and manner of speech, by heavens and earth, the civil and religious state and combination of men in the world, and the men of them, were often understood… On this foundation I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state.

"On this foundation I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter......to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state."

John Owen (1616 – 1683) was an English Nonconformist church leader, theologian, and academic administrator at the University of Oxford.

From Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758)

Quote :
The Scriptures further teach us to call the gospel-restoration and redemption, a creation of a new heaven and a new earth… The gospel-state is everywhere spoken of as a renewed state of things, wherein old things are passed away, and all things become new.. And the dissolution of the Jewish state was often spoken of in the Old Testament as the end of the world. But we who belong to the gospel-church, belong to the new creation; and therefore there seems to be at least as much reason, that we should commemorate the work of this creation, as that the members of the ancient Jewish church should commemorate the work of the old creation..

Jonathan Edwards (1703 – 1758) was a Christian preacher and theologian. Edwards "is widely acknowledged to be America's most important and original philosophical theologian," and one of America's greatest intellectuals.

From Adam Clarke's commentary:

Quote :
The patterns of things in the heavens - That is: The tabernacle and all its utensils, services, etc., must be purified by these, viz.: The blood of calves and goats, and the sprinkling of the blood and water with the bunch of hyssop bound about with scarlet wool. These are called patterns, ??p?de??µata, exemplars, earthly things, which were the representatives of heavenly things. And there is no doubt that every thing in the tabernacle, its parts, divisions, utensils, ministry, etc., as appointed by God, were representations of celestial matters; but how far and in what way we cannot now see.

Purification implies, not only cleansing from defilement, but also dedication or consecration. All the utensils employed in the tabernacle service were thus purified though incapable of any moral pollution.

But the heavenly things themselves -

1. Some think this means heaven itself, which, by receiving the sacrificed body of Christ, which appears in the presence of God for us, may be said to be purified, i.e., set apart for the reception of the souls of those who have found redemption in his blood.

2. Others think the body of Christ is intended, which is the tabernacle in which his Divinity dwelt; and that this might be said to be purified by its own sacrifice, as he is said, Joh 17:19, to sanctify himself; that is, to consecrate himself unto God as a sin-offering for the redemption of man.

3. Others suppose the Church is intended, which he is to present to the Father without spot or wrinkle or any such thing.

4. As the entrance to the holy of holies must be made by the sprinkling of the blood of the sacrifice, and as that holy of holies represented heaven, the apostle's meaning seems to be that there was and could be no entrance to the holiest but through his blood; and therefore, when by a more perfect tabernacle, Heb 9:11, Heb 9:12, he passed into the heavens, not with the blood of bulls and goats, but by his own blood, he thus purified or laid open the entrance to the holiest, by a more valuable sacrifice than those required to open the entrance of the holy of holies. It was necessary, therefore, for God had appointed it so, that the tabernacle and its parts, etc., which were patterns of things in the heavens, should be consecrated and entered with such sacrifices as have already been mentioned; but the heaven of heavens into which Jesus entered, and whither he will bring all his faithful followers, must be propitiated, consecrated, and entered, by the infinitely better sacrifice of his own body and blood. That this is the meaning appears from the following verse.

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versavia



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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:19 am

Tom hi,

I want to share with you my last thoughts about the New Heaven...
Here is my conversation on another Forum:

Ella, Tom,

I would appreciate your comments on my post:

My friend prayed to God:

"God's children grab the glory
Holding on for life so dear
No one must stop the thirsting
Our Lord's word makes it crystal clear.

Faithful saints are so desperate
For a spark to ignite this flame
But with all we may be doing
Must be done in Jesus name.

Stop stalling or tedious waiting
We are the Royal Diadem
Come on congregate for Jesus
And give our hearts and lives to Him!"




I invite you to consider who is the Bride of Christ.



Let me tell you what our God said:

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!

7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb (JESUS) has come, and His wife (CHURCH) has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Revelation 19



This is the meeting of God Jesus with the Church of God (believers).

Let's say it this way:


The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the Church.


At the Second Coming of Christ, the Church will be united with the Bridegroom (the SON of GOD), the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2).


At that time, all believers will inhabit the heavenly CITY known as New Jerusalem, also called "the holy city" in Revelation 21:2 and 10. The New Jerusalem is NOT the Church.


Some have misinterpreted verse 9 to mean the holy city is the Bride of Christ, but that cannot be because Christ died for His people, not for a city.


But NOTE: The city is called the Bride because it encompasses all who are the Bride, just as all the students of a school are sometimes called "the school."


As believers in Jesus Christ, we who are the Bride of Christ wait with great anticipation for the day when we will be united with our Bridegroom JESUS.


Now let's read about that in the OT:

God the Glory of His People

Isaiah 60

19 ?The sun shall no longer be your light by day,

Nor for brightness shall the moon give light to you;

But the Lord will be to you an everlasting light,

And your God your glory.

20 Your sun shall no longer go down,

Nor shall your moon withdraw itself;

For the Lord will be your everlasting light,

And the days of your mourning shall be ended.

21 Also your people shall all be righteous;

They shall inherit the land forever,

The branch of My planting,

The work of My hands,

That I may be glorified.

22 A little one shall become a thousand,

And a small one a strong nation.

I, the Lord, will hasten it in its time.?




Isaiah 61:

10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,

My soul shall be joyful in my God;

For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,

He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,

As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,

And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

11 For as the earth brings forth its bud,

As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,

So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.



Isaiah 62:

For Zion?s sake I will not hold My peace,

And for Jerusalem?s sake I will not rest,

Until her righteousness goes forth as brightness,

And her salvation as a lamp that burns.

2 The Gentiles shall see your righteousness,

And all kings your glory.

You shall be called by a new name,

Which the mouth of the Lord will name.

3 You shall also be a crown of glory

In the hand of the Lord,

And a royal diadem

In the hand of your God.

4 You shall no longer be termed Forsaken,

Nor shall your land any more be termed Desolate;

But you shall be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah;

For the Lord delights in you,

And your land shall be married.

5 For as a young man marries a virgin,

So shall your sons marry you;

And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride,

So shall your God rejoice over you.



11 Indeed the Lord has proclaimed

To the end of the world:

?Say to the daughter of Zion,

?Surely your salvation is coming;

Behold, His reward is with Him,

And His work before Him.??

12 And they shall call them The Holy People,

The Redeemed of the Lord;

And you shall be called Sought Out,

A City Not Forsaken.



Isaiah 65

17 ?For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;

And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;

For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,

And her people a joy.

19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,

And joy in My people;

The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,

Nor the voice of crying.



What about that? Any comments?



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versavia



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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:20 am

22 But you have come to Mount Zion (ISRAEL) and to the CITY of the living God, the HEAVENLY Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and CHURCH of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 12



One interpretation sees the Heavenly City suspended above the earth like a space platform. Others see an earthly city. Still others a city suspended in the air that later descends to earth.



But it is a literal city representing God's redeemed people experiencing their final salvation, the city is a place of fellowship with God.
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versavia



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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:20 am


Now a question for you:

If the New Jerusalem is on our planet as we see it in the Bible verses above then how the Second Resurrection of the Dead will happen?

What will people do in the far future?

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Rev 20

Revelation 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the Second Resurrection as the wicked and those, who do NOT inherit the Kingdom of God, judged by God at the great White Throne Judgment prior to being cast into the Lake of Fire.


The event which divides the First and Second resurrections seems to be the Millennial Kingdom. The last of the righteous are raised to reign "with Christ a thousand years" (Revelation 20:4), but the "rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Revelation 20:5).

But the "rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Revelation 20:5)....

What does it mean?

Let me remind you that unbelievers will live on earth too during the Millenium Reign of Christ and they will start the World War 4 (Rev 20).

Satanic Rebellion Crushed

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20

Is the event of defeat of Armies which will attack Jerusalem is called as the "Second Resurrection"? Most probably yes. But who knows.....
We can only speculate and meditate on the Holy Scripture...
but God knows the answer to this question...
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versavia



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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:20 am


One more issue for you to meditate on:

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. Rev 22

This verse says that after the World War 4, Christians will dwell in the city Jerusalem and OUTSIDE are "dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie". Right?

Does it mean that other people (unbelievers) who did not die during the World War 4 will be alive on our planet too?
Most probably yes. But AGAIN: this is ONLY my SPECULATION because I do not know what God knows. I do not know but only suggest meditating on the words of God.

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versavia



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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:21 am


Ok if my pic is correct then what will be in the far future?

I thought that the Holy Scripture gave us answers to this question describing the future events....

But I fail to see our far future in the Scripture except what is described in the New Jerusalem...

May be you see it?
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versavia



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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:21 am

Where will be located the New Jerusalem? On earth? Or on another planet or it will be some kind of space station?

I am confused and a little bit disappointed because it seems that this city will be on earth....
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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:08 am

Wow, if you wanted to write an online book, there is a place for that. Smile

Seriously, you have posted it a lot, and it will take time to read. Won't be today. I have a busy day and I just won't have the time. And, as far as I know, Ella is not here.

Welcome here. Hope you are blessed from your experience here.

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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:40 am

versavia wrote:
Tom hi,


I invite you to consider who is the Bride of Christ.



Let me tell you what our God said:

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!

7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb (JESUS) has come, and His wife (CHURCH) has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Revelation 19



This is the meeting of God Jesus with the Church of God (believers).

Let's say it this way:


The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the Church.


At the Second Coming of Christ, the Church will be united with the Bridegroom (the SON of GOD), the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2).


At that time, all believers will inhabit the heavenly CITY known as New Jerusalem, also called "the holy city" in Revelation 21:2 and 10. The New Jerusalem is NOT the Church.


Some have misinterpreted verse 9 to mean the holy city is the Bride of Christ, but that cannot be because Christ died for His people, not for a city.


But NOTE: The city is called the Bride because it encompasses all who are the Bride, just as all the students of a school are sometimes called "the school."


As believers in Jesus Christ, we who are the Bride of Christ wait with great anticipation for the day when we will be united with our Bridegroom JESUS.

My first point. John plainly states in Revelation 21.2 that New Jerusalem is the bride.

Second. I believe in the message of fulfillment, which means, all things are fulfilled in Christ. So, all things in Revelation are past.

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versavia



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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:06 am

No Tom.
You are wrong.

Let's read it:
2 Then I, John, saw the holy CITY, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband.

This is the CITY AS or LIKE the bride because it is adorned for her husband Jesus.
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PostSubject: Re: New Heavens and New Earth   Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:16 pm

versavia wrote:
No Tom.
You are wrong.

Let's read it:
2 Then I, John, saw the holy CITY, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband.

This is the CITY AS or LIKE the bride because it is adorned for her husband Jesus.

Is that different from what I said?

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