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 The Coming of Christ

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PostSubject: The Coming of Christ   Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

First, let's get rid of the falacy of the "second coming of Christ." That term is found nowhere in scripture, at least not in reputable translations.

It is not that I don't believe in the coming of Christ, I do. It's a matter of timing. I believe the coming of Christ had already occurred.

The Bible is an historical book. It was not written to or about anyone living today. It was written specifically to the people of that time and for their understanding and edification. So, how would they have understood it. They probably thought that the coming of Christ was imminent in their lifetime. And they were right.

II Peter 3:9 states, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentence." Peter was dealing with those who who have been upsetting early Christendom by questioning the Lord's promise to return. People fully expected His return in their lifetime.

Now, why would the people of that time expect the return or coming of Christ in their lifetime? Because it was part of the Apostolic message. James 5:7&8 states, "Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord IS AT HAND." The imminent return of Christ was taught by the apostles. My first question for you is this, "Did the apostles lie?"

Now, let's look at some of the words of Jesus. Matthew 16:27&28 states, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who SHALL NOT TASTE death till they see the Son of Man COMING in His Kingdom." This indicates that the coming of Christ in His kingdom would be in the lifetime of SOME of the disciples.

Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it's light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Here's what we have so far; 1) The apostles taught the immenent return of Christ in their lifetime. 2) Jesus indicated that His coming would be in the lifetime of some of His disciples.

But, now we come to Matthew 24. Jesus had just been in the temple in Jerusalem condemning the scribes and the Pharisees, for all their wickedness down through the years. And at the end of this diatribe, Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." - 23:36. Now, when Jesus said, "this generation," do you suppose he was referring to some far off distant generation? He just got finished condemning them for all their wickedness, and then He says, their punishment wouldn't occur till some far off generation. Yeah right. 23:37 established that they were in fact in Jerusalem. And that is where Matthew 24 begins.

Matthew 24 starts with Jesus and the disciples leaving the temple. Jesus showed them the temple, and told them it would be destroyed. They asked this question, "when will these things be ? And what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?" Jesus then told them of unprecedented great tribulation that would befall Jerusalem. Not, America. And, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS, the sun would be darkened, etc. Then you will see the sign of the Son of Man... then they will see the Son of Man COMING IN HIS KINGDOM, not thousands of years later, but immediately after the great tribulation that would befall Jerusalem. Well, that great tribulation did occur just as Jesus foretold, culminating in the desecration and destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

There you have it, the case for the coming of Christ in 70 AD. However, there is much more in Scripture that confirms what is written here. This little article simply is the beginning. However, I do believe this is enough to establish the fact that the coming of Christ did indeed take place in 70AD.

All Scripture quotations from the NKJV

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PostSubject: Re: The Coming of Christ   Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:15 pm

I don't think it is profitable to keep discussing the same thing over and over as, neither of us intend to repent of our beliefs. There are other topics in here.
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PostSubject: Re: The Coming of Christ   Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:07 pm

I understand what you mean but isn't it important whether Jesus come the second time or not we have to be prepared? just like this particular passage: Matt. 24:42:51"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Didymus wrote:

Thanks for your response.

I use to be where you are at now. But, I have come to realize that the original writings that eventually became our Bible was written almost 2000 years ago. That's a long time to be in the transition between the accension of Christ, and his coming, esspecially since the preponderance of literary evidence in the New Testament indicates that the coming of Christ was soon at the time it was originally written. The Bible is an historical document, copied and translated many times for nearly 2000 years.

There are many statements that indicates that the coming of Christ was imminent at the time of the original writings. The problem is in treating the Bible as if it was written yesterday, thus creating the illusion that "all these things must happen in MY generation."

After realizing that, the coming of Christ in my life time just didn't make sense anymore. Nearly at the same that I realized that, I learned about preterism. I studied it, and it made much more sense to me than any of the futurist positions I held in the past. So, I became a believer in fulfilled prophecy.

Does that make sense?

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PostSubject: Re: The Coming of Christ   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:43 pm

Russell Rankin said:
Quote :
The Bible is a book of prophecy - history not yet happened.
Since Christ's birth in Bethlehem was prophetic that means it is history "not yet happened?" The Bible was prophecy to those to whom it was written.

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PostSubject: Re: The Coming of Christ   Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:36 pm

I was in the midst of writing this reply when the power went off. Therefore what I wrote was lost.

First, I want to say, welcome to "Way of Truth," Kangaroo Jack.

Your point is a good one.
Quote :
The Bible was prophecy to those to whom it was written.
The Bible is an historical document, and realizing that changed my understanding of Scripture.

Thanks for your reply.


elephant - I wish my memory was as good as his
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